[Extended] BACKSTITCH with Kathryn Greenwood Swanson
Talking to Kathryn Greenwood Swanson is like completing an electrical circuit that you hadn’t realized was open. Big ideas just light up this entire conversation. Kathryn and I catch up on the one year anniversary of our SEAMSIDE chat to catch up on everything that’s happened since we last talked. If you haven’t heard our first conversation, Kathryn runs a thriving creative reuse shop in Turner Falls, Massachusetts called Swanson’s Fabric, and you can find it here. In that conversation we talked about: the role of the communal stashhouse, the shame so often associated with our fabric stashes, and how to start your own secondhand fabric store like Swansons.
In this SEAMSIDE conversation, Kathryn and I talk about:
① how to work with the energy of objects
② fixing the entire world in one fell swoop
③ our dreams for a cross-country multi-city quilty bus tour
WHY LISTEN TO THIS EPISODE?
This episode focuses on the impact of textiles impact on personal growth, community building, and environmental sustainability. Kathryn reflects on becoming a mom again, ten years after her first child, and reflects on passing cherished quilts to Zak for artistic transformation, alongside discussions about the future of crafting, offer listeners a blend of inspiration, practical wisdom, and a hopeful outlook on the future.
REFLECTION PROMPTS:
Artistic Legacy and Transformation: Kathryn’s story of gifting Zak a cherished quilt for artistic reimagining opens a dialogue on the lifecycle of quilts. Consider the items in your life that hold sentimental value. How could their legacy be transformed or extended through creative expression?
Environmental Consciousness in Crafting: The discussion on being "trash rich" prompts us to think about our environmental footprint in our creative practice. Where are the sustainable riches in your life?
Hope and the Future: Zak's project, themed around a hopeful post-collapse future, challenges the narrative of despair often associated with the future. Reflect on how creative expression can be a tool for envisioning and working towards a more hopeful future.
THREE ARTISTS YOU SHOULD FOLLOW
① Sydney Swisher, the painter
② Isaiah Moses, the crocheter
③ Radha Weaver, the quilter and database maker
HELPFUL LINKS
→ Get your free trial to the QUILTY NOOK
→ See images and more at the EPISODE WEBSITE
→ Follow Zak on INSTAGRAM
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Transcript is auto-generated and may contain errors.
ZAK (2): Your listening to seam side, where we explore the inner work of textiles. I'm your host. Zach foster. And today we sit down with an old friend to seam side, Catherine Greenwood's Swanson.
ZAK (2): Now, before we hop on the line with Catherine, let me just share this one. Review that. W C S 60 shared recently on apple podcast. WCS said. Brings me peace. Five stars. I already like where this is going. They said Zack is a treasure. My favorite episodes are his personal ones that are meditations on his work.
I am so calmed and inspired. And I love his sweetheart. Bless you Zack from this old Southern soloist. Well WCS, you're in luck. I got another one of those episodes coming up real soon. I'm glad you're enjoying them. I like. Sit down and telling you all the stories.
If [00:01:00] seam side is bringing ups is bringing you inspiration. I sure would love to hear about it. Leave me a review on apple podcasts. Not only do reading your kind words, bring me joy, but it is the best way for other folks to discover the magic that has seemed sad.
And while we're talking about magical things, I got to tell you about this latest experiment on the nook. That's going really well, actually. And that's the idea of an all weekend sewing circle. We got this harebrained idea a while back, me and Chan Reimer. Who's our community moderator. To open up a zoom call on a Friday afternoon, just leave it open all weekend and folks can hop in and hop out at their leisure. I sit and sew and Gavin chat and just catching up and having a good company. You know, the funny thing about zoom is they'll automatically shut you off after 40 minutes of inactivity. And so far, that's only happened a couple of times. So, if that sounds like magic to you, you want to be a part of this [00:02:00] warm sweet so-and circle. Come on over there had been every day. And on the weekends, they're having an all day. You can find a link to your free trial on the Quilty Knuck. Look in the show notes below.
And what that little business aside. On to today's show. Talking to Catherine Greenwood Swanson. It's like completing an electrical circuit. That you hadn't realized you left open. Being ideas, just light up this entire conversation. Catherine. And I catch up on the one-year anniversary of our first seam side chat. If you haven't heard our first conversation, you should know that Catherine runs a thriving, creative reuse shop and Turner falls, MassachusettsCalled Swanson's fabric. And you can find that conversation in the feed below. For January 9th, 2023. And that conversation, we talked about all kinds of stuff, the role of the communal stash house for creative community. The shame that we so often [00:03:00] associate with our fabric stashes. And then Catherine gave us some tips then about how to start our own secondhand fabric store. Like she's done. But that was then, and this is now a year later.
So in this seems side conversation, Catherine. And I talk about how to work with the energy of objects.
We talk about fixing the entire world in one fell swoop. I think it can be done. and we wrap up this conversation with our dreams for our cross country. Multi-city Quilty bus tour. You're in for a treat. I hope you enjoyed this backstage episode of seam side. With Catherine Greenwood Swanson. Welcome back to Seamside, Catherine.
KATHRYN: Hello.
ZAK (2): It's so good to see you again.
KATHRYN: I brought my plus one.
ZAK (2): Who's that plus one?
KATHRYN: This is my little new addition. This is Grover. You're going to hear him grunting.
ZAK (2): Oh, what a sweet little [00:04:00] thing.
KATHRYN: He is sweet. He, you know, he's been so calm and he doesn't cry much. He just kind of grunts and coos and grumbles sometimes.
ZAK (2): does Grover have a nickname yet?
KATHRYN: Uh, we call him the Grub, or Grublet, or Grubsly.
ZAK (2): That's pretty fitting because he's a fairly good sized child for one month. He looks like a little grub.
KATHRYN: He's a twelve pound little, little sack of potatoes.
ZAK (2): He's a
KATHRYN: he's one month. We
ZAK (2): had our conversation on Seamside. Um, we got some catching up to do.
KATHRYN: sure do.
ZAK (2): We sure do. So, I don't know, I think one of the things that's happened Since the last time we talked on Seamside was I came to visit you.
KATHRYN: It was so nice.
ZAK (2): to see you at Turner Falls at your shop and you gifted me an old quilt that I just [00:05:00] recently turned into another piece that we can talk about in a minute. But, um, that quilt that you gave me, do you. What can you tell us about it?
KATHRYN: Well, it's very lucky that it's in your hands now and that it's on its next journey. That quilt is for my first marriage and I bought it at an estate sale. It's a wedding rings quilt. Um, I I was really excited when I saw it on the Saturday of the estate sale, and then I know that things are half off the next day on Sundays, and so I went back to get it because I, I went home and couldn't stop thinking about it, which I think is a good sign usually.
Um, and I bought it, so I actually don't know the history, whose wedding it was made for, but I brought it into my marriage at an early time in my marriage, and I adored it, and I thought it was wonderful, and we got a lot of good use out of it. It started to go to tatters, and so then I passed it on to you, and ZAK (2): And I gladly received it. Yeah. So I took that quilt that you gave me and it sat around for several [00:06:00] months. And just a couple of weeks ago, I started working on this particular quilt that I'm thinking is going to be the first in a series. And I'm still kind of working, working out the language around it. I had this moment a couple of weeks ago when someone asked me, To go ahead and like book something for the spring of 2025 and my knee jerk reaction Catherine was Oh, hey Grover. Oh You think we're still all gonna be here in the spring of 2025 like this real kind of fatalist Knee jerk reaction sprung up within me and just noticing how Deeply programmed that thought was in me, let alone culture, just in me, made me want to make this quilt and it was planted the seed for this new series, which loosely calling working title, um, the new apocalypse apocalypse, meaning at its root, something like revelation or unveiling.
So what is the new [00:07:00] version of that? And I'm interested in exploring. One, what is this human penchant for self destructive narratives? Like, why are we so fascinated by them? And two, how can we use that same mechanism in our psyche and plant some new seeds there that might give us a more positive future, more positive bent?
So this quilt that you gave me is now the, the middle and the back of this larger quilt that says sprawling across black linen, these hot pink letters, hand cut and pretty rough say collapse. We thought. was certain. And there's a lot there that I like because collapse can refer to a number of different things.
It can refer to like, um, sort of a religious demise, right? Like the Christian sense of Armageddon, let's say of end times. But it can also refer to another kind of collapse, like climate collapse or cultural collapse or political collapse and these kinds of things. So it's [00:08:00] taking in all of these self destructive narratives, it's putting it in the past tense.
So there is some hope there too, that like we somehow moved through it and we're now on the other side. And this particular quilt still kind of in tatters, right? Like I honored the state in which you gave it to me. It's not perfect. Um, but it is there and it is whole and it is. Proclaiming that we have made it through the collapse.
Grover.
KATHRYN: He's digesting something.
ZAK (2): Get it, Grub?
KATHRYN: your beautiful words. He's digesting. Um, I think it's beautiful. I think it's beautiful. I think it's the way you put that in the past tense makes it a hopeful because it makes us be able to see past 2025 or, you know, to the point where we can look back on this time and say, Oh, we were wrong about how everything was so terrible.
We're going to be,
ZAK (2): And that doesn't mean that things aren't terrible, but it [00:09:00] does also hold out some space for human adaptability. and the goodness of people and the resilience of our environment and all kinds of things. Fingers crossed. So thank you for that quilt. If you have any other quilts, just like, you know, laying around Swanson's, remember your good friend, Zach.
KATHRYN: We have a bin that says Zach Foster on it since you messaged me and asked for quilts There is one in there. It's a quilt top only that someone put together of all William Morris prints and someone held it up to me yesterday and said Should we sell this or should we put it in the Zach Foster bin? And I said, put it in the Zach bin.
He gets first pick.
ZAK (2): When in doubt, throw it in the Zach bin. I
KATHRYN: But the next quote I want to give you from my collection at home is one. I know a little bit more of the history of, which is that it's from my dad's side of the family, which means it's from my Southern [00:10:00] Confederate side of my family, which I know almost nothing about. I, so I don't know much about the origin of this quilt beyond that, but it is even more in tatters and has had heavier wear than the other one and I would be honored to put that in your hands next.
ZAK (2): would be honored to receive it. And you know, what's funny, is that I didn't know So I was, I don't want to say this, I didn't know how I would know that my collection that I'm calling Southern White Amnesia was done. I didn't know what I was looking for. And so I've been really focused on that for the last couple of years. But when this new apocalypse idea came up, it's the first idea in two years. I'm like, Oh. My mind just starts spinning off in a hundred directions. And it makes me think that Southern Wyoming Amnesia now has over a dozen pieces in it. It's a well rounded collection. And not that it has to end, [00:11:00] right? Like you're going to give me this quilt and I might be inspired for a whole nother dimension of this body of work.
Um, we'll just see.
KATHRYN: Well, let me tell you what your words have made me think of here, just
ZAK (2): Okay.
KATHRYN: I'm in the business of selling secondhand fabric, right? And taking in people's stashes. And, uh, finding them, finding new homes for these items, these items that are so sentimental, so full of ghosts and history, good ghosts, really sweet ghosts, but they're haunted in special ways.
Um, a textiles just hold energy in, you know, in the most special way. So over the course of running this business, I've had to think a whole lot about my stash. The stuff around me, um, how to honor things, how to move the things along that are sort of creating literal, physical, literal clogs and backups in our space, but also [00:12:00] emotional backups in our space.
Part of this, I went through a Marie Kondo process. Did you know this? I hired an expert. I hired an expert Marie Kondo trained. professional to help me in my home because I was feeling Like either I was depressed because my house was such a mess or my house was such a mess because I was depressed and I couldn't tell which it was.
And I knew the only kind of therapist I would get would be this one. So I had someone come and help me go through my stuff. Now I'll tell you. This also felt like professional development, like I needed to, I need to understand about people and their relationship to their things, since I'm the guardian of their things when they bring them to me.
Um, I need to know how to talk to people when they're letting go of their things. Um, so I went through this process and I now live in a space that is no tidier than it was before, right? I didn't take away [00:13:00] any ability to minimalize, but What I learned that was so profound is that the exercise of holding something up against your chest and saying, does this bring me joy or not, and then discarding the things that don't, it allowed me to get rid of a lot of bad memories, a lot of things that came from other people in my life that felt like they held pressure on me, that I realized if I didn't have them in my physical space, I would forget and so I could edit my physical space so that it was only full of things that make me happy.
So even though it's still so cluttered, I'll apologize anytime someone comes over. The things, the items that clutter my space make me really happy, right? And there's something about what happened in the pandemic, which was like everything suddenly went [00:14:00] totally crazy and I looked around and I just said, this is it.
I'm changing my career in my whole life and no one can tell me not to because no one knows what's going on and no one can say I'm doing the wrong thing. this idea that like the world is unstable and we're in this This place where everything feels chaotic. It's a time where I think we can take the opportunity to say, I'm not going to deal with anything that makes me feel yucky or anything that puts pressure on me in a way I don't like.
How do I say this? Like that quilt that I gave you and the next one that I want to give you, I love those quilts, but they were a burden to me because I was feeling guilty that I wasn't mending them. And I don't have the attention span to mend a quilt the way you do, or to incorporate it into a new work the way you do.
So to be able to find a positive outlet and get it out of my life, but in a positive way. Is a total relief, so there's some relationship to this [00:15:00] and fear of climate collapse, what we're doing to our planet.
Um, and being what I like to say, we need to be the apex composters of all of our stuff. You know, I have it tattooed on me that we're trash rich. We need to think of ourselves as trash rich. This is a resource that we have around us. It's something about like. Being uncertain of the future means that we get to just look at the present however we want to right now. if we're unsure of the future, it means that we can do anything we want in the present.
Right? Right. So.
what it is, is that we can refuse to work with the things that aren't working for us, right? and we can choose to take this as a time to change our entire environment, right? To say things like the structures of white supremacy That are degrading our social fabric. I'm going to refuse to work with those anymore.
I'm [00:16:00] actually just going to look at it and say, Nope, we're changing everything right now. You don't know what's going on, and neither do I. But what we all know is that some things aren't working. Right? And so I can also choose To take a family heirloom outside of the family and give it to you and I'm taking that authority I'm not asking for permission I'm just saying this thing Needs its next life and I'm gonna put it in the good hands of Zach and I'm making that choice and you know what?
Not seeing that quilt around my house in tatters languishing It's going to make me feel a lot better, ZAK (2): And if you ever miss it, there will soon be a beautiful picture of how it's been transformed into a work of art. And you can just look at that lovingly at your phone and have that.
KATHRYN: see, exactly. And if I were to follow sort of the old rules that I had been raised with or, or was assuming applied to me or something, I, the rule would say like, this is a family quote that stays in the family [00:17:00] and you should mend it or something. But, um, I don't know what's going to happen in 2025. And so.
I don't need to hold on to that heirloom as if it's going to be in some patriarchal version of my family where the last name gets passed on by the man all the way down for centuries. You know what I mean? Um, so I think to say I don't want to deal with anything that makes me feel bad. That's not what I'm really trying to say, but what I'm saying is we don't have to deal with the rules that are keeping the things that make us feel bad in place. Does that make sense?
ZAK (2): It 100 percent does that we can investigate and we can loosen our grip on certain things and we can define the future on terms that, um, may be different than the ones we're currently operating on, but we feel like stand a better chance of creating the world that we want to move into.
KATHRYN: Yeah. And trying to remain flexible to the problems that are in front of us right now and addressing them. I mean, I think that's one of the [00:18:00] most frustrating things when I think about the war and climate problems that we're having around us is that everyone knows what the problems are. But everyone's following sort of old rules that won't allow us to change, to fix what's going on.
Like, old rules of who's supposed to be profiting, and the fact that we just do the dirtiest, cheapest thing we can to make the most money, or, you know, like we don't have, we could just reject those rules and say we have a different set of priorities.
ZAK (2): We just all got to do it at the same time.
KATHRYN: Yeah.
ZAK (2): Right? We That's why we're here together, you and hit. That's right. Well, no, we saw it happen in spring of 2020 when air traffic was so reduced instantly because of COVID the skies over our heads got bluer. Air was clearing up. Like we made a dramatic change and a dramatic response, environmental response was evident.
KATHRYN: Mm hmm. Mm
ZAK (2): We can make changes and the, the world will respond. [00:19:00] And I think it's really interesting to think that, you know, what you did on the personal level, Catherine of like, am I depressed because my house is a mess or is my house a mess because I'm depressed? Like, let's blow that up to the global level. And are we having all these societal ills because our house is a mess, because our world is physically trashed.
Or are we trashing our world because we have all these societal ills? It doesn't really matter in the end like you found out in your personal experience that like you can work with both at the same time. And come out better on the other side.
KATHRYN: hmm. Mm hmm.
ZAK (2): It's like a chicken and an egg, right? It really doesn't matter which one's first.
Just deal with it.
KATHRYN: Right, yeah. So I had to do it the only way that I could at that time, which was to just go through every item I owned and take a look at it.
ZAK (2): necessarily for you being clean, which is interesting, or like tidy, or like having this minimalist, spotless home. It's about [00:20:00] getting out the bad mojo, right?
KATHRYN: Absolutely. I stood in the middle of my downstairs area, which is like, it's an open concept. It's a kitchen, dining room, and everything. And this house I live in, it's an old 1700s mill house, and it's got layers of Like, five sets of roommates of past objects are around, and everyone was a maximalist, and there's junk everywhere, and there's stuff everywhere.
I was standing in the middle of the room just spinning around thinking, oh my god, like, how could I ever even clean this up? I don't even know whose is whose or what's what. Um, but then I just looked around me and I was like, but look at all the joy here. Like, a lot of the mess here is like, the sheepskin.
on the on the middle of the dining room table with a mobile over it for the baby and like the mess of the bottles from the pump the breast pump are [00:21:00] everywhere and there's but now there's like hanging bird sculptures that I put up there's some like beautiful things in every corner there's artwork on the walls it's like a real I had a real like god bless this mess moment I was standing there and I thought what if the way to happiness was to just Decide that I don't want, I don't need it to be all perfectly tidy.
I don't want it to be. That's why it's like, clearly, that's why it's not, I don't, I don't want it enough or something. Um, and like I said, all of the objects in the space, at least that I know are mine, um, are objects that I want in the space. I don't keep things around that bum me out anymore. So I actually.
Went, started going around and taking photographs of the room and I thought this is a real moment in time, like you can see the young baby in this space and you can see what season it is because the fire is going and, I yesterday took the photo of the most [00:22:00] cluttered area that we have the sideboard that collects everything.
And I sent it off to Shutterfly to be made into a thousand piece puzzle. Because I thought, this puzzle is like, like, let's take a deep look at how much shit is on this sideboard. Uh, this is a good jigsaw puzzle. And so I'm gonna, I didn't tell my man about it. It's gonna be a gift for him, like a new dad present. But like, look at our little home. Look at, look at what a cluttered mess it is.
I love it. LAUGHS
ZAK (2): why I love you. Never in a million years. That's what I've thought to make a puzzle out of a messy sideboard. That's, that's amazing.
KATHRYN: Well, I thought like either I get to love it or it's going to bug me, you know, and like, why is it bugging me? It's bugging me because of these external pressures, these rules that I'm getting from Instagram and from these other visual images of like what a home is supposed to be. And, uh, it's. Is it my cluttered space that's making me feel uncomfortable or is it the pressure of other people saying my space [00:23:00] shouldn't be like this?
And honestly, we all know what that pressure like we live in such abundance of stuff That um, it's a it could be a full time job to just try to like keep it at bay So, I don't know some kind of like peace and and love amongst all of the junk But also like a part of that is that like I am also I am active with my things.
I mean, my partner and I, he, he sews and he's a maker and we are, we are here using our things and, um, creating with them. It's a creative space. So, this is like a churning. Workshop here this house. Um, and so I don't feel like I'm in a space where stuff is just piling up around me I feel like I'm in a space where things are churning and active and that feels very loving and happy I think if it started to just consume us that would feel different.
ZAK (2): Well, it sounds like your big takeaway from this [00:24:00] experience was that it's less about the objects or the number of objects or the look of all these objects together. And it's more about working with the energy. of the objects themselves and trying to tap into which energies are working for you and which ones are not working for you.
Would you say that's,
KATHRYN: it was totally this like aha moment about like the oh does this bring me joy thing is really real It's about curating your own space So that You're only surrounded by things that bring you joy. Why not?
ZAK (2): I had a moment just earlier this morning, actually, because I was doing a photo shoot with that quilt that I was telling y'all about. And I always like to take at least one picture of me with a piece that I make, right? The artist with the object. And I generally Move all the junk out of my studio space so I can get a nice, like clean shot, you know, and this morning I just didn't have time and I also had a moment where I'm looking back at stepping back in the kitchen because I work in my Eat in [00:25:00] kitchen and I'm looking at my studio space and there's Laundry baskets of quilts and fabric.
There are boxes, there are crates, there are heaps, there are stools, there are chairs, there's all kinds, like you can't see the floor at the moment. And that's how my studio is 75 percent of the KATHRYN: Mm hmm.
ZAK (2): And so I said, you know what? It's actually kind of cute. Like it's just these mounds of fabric, like big pillowy mounds of fabric.
And I'm a textile artist. So let's, let's not pretend that. Isn't anything but what it is. And so for this particular artist and object shot, I went and like snuggled down between two big piles of fabric. And it's like, you can just kind of see my head and shoulders poking out like as one of many objects in this milieu of this, of this scene. I think the caption is just going to be like, there's an artist in there somewhere or something, right? Like, like spot the artist or whatever, but it's a great shot. It's what life is. And, uh, The energy, even though it's a cluttered shot, the energy is [00:26:00] positive energy and good vibes. So I'm here KATHRYN: for a puzzle. A Zach Foster
ZAK (2): Maybe it's time for a puzzle. All right. Well, a lot has happened. You've cleaned out your house. On the business end of things, though, if we can switch gears for a minute, you ready to switch gears KATHRYN: Yeah, yeah.
ZAK (2): on the business end of things. The last time we talked, you had two locations. You had your downtown Swanson fabrics and Turner falls, Massachusetts, and you had your stash house, what about half mile down the road.
KATHRYN: Yep, exactly.
ZAK (2): And now you've gone down to just the stash house. You want to share a little bit about what that was like?
KATHRYN: Yeah, well that was a business decision that probably anyone would have told you was inevitable, um, myself included. I just, at the time, was not emotionally ready to leave behind my cute, cute storefront. I still regret it. I still am sad that we didn't have an endowment to be able to keep both locations.
But, practically, also, you know, part of this is that I've grown a big team and [00:27:00] Swanson's, uh, started as a solo venture of just me. I am still the boss and the sole owner on the LLC, but I have many employees who are a really strong, hardworking team, and it was a bummer to have us just a half mile apart from each other, um, and it also meant for our customers that they would go to one location and we would say.
Um, okay. Well, if you didn't find what you have need here, like maybe there's something down the street and That was fine. I mean, people asked me at first, like, but you're splitting your business or somebody was like, no, no, no. If you tell a fiber artist, there's another stash of fabric down the street.
Like there's no problem with the customer going back and forth, but it just sort of like, it just was kind of a bum, I don't know, it was becoming a bummer. And then we had to pay rent in two locations and it was extra labor cause it wasn't consolidated to one spot. It was a practical decision and we're now just at the stash house, [00:28:00] the stash house has three parts to the building. It's a 4500 square foot building and the front part is the, Sewing machines and what we call the handwork living room. And it's a space for people to work and to learn together.
And that has been the most exciting development over the last year because we did not have that space at the storefront. This is why we got. The stash house was to be able to have a space where people could sew together and knit together and make things together. And then there is the back half, which has the fabric store and the donation center.
And then also the website, which believe it or not, a website takes up about as much physical space as a shop. Um, you have to have your inventory all put somewhere. You have to have a shipping area. You have to. area for photographing things and getting them online. So, um, those are the three parts to the building.
The learning area and the store and then the [00:29:00] website. And, um, we have started up our membership system, um, where we have online memberships and in person memberships with the idea being that just for us to keep our prices as low as we try to keep them, which is that all the fabric is 5 a yard. Um, and the yarn is cheap.
Uh, it, we need sustaining support. And so having a membership system helps our, our. At distance, members get to see everything first. They get 24 hour advance, um, peek at what is going on the website every week. Um, and our in person folks get discounts on classes and fellowship nights and things like that.
So, we've tried to make a third space, right? Like, uh, like a church or a community center. A space where you can come and hang out and be with other people and, um, and, get into the things that you're into. My idea with the Stash House and with Swanson's has always [00:30:00] been that, um, we might not agree on everything, but we can all agree that your grandmother's quilts are beautiful.
And so having a space like this, where people don't have to talk about religion and politics, um, or, feel tense around each other. There's something, we're all, we all have something to talk about. We all have something to get into together. And we are surrounded by A huge amount of overstimulating stuff to, uh, look at and discuss if we need to.
So, there's been a ton of intergenerational, fellowship and learning, which has really been my goal is to get all of our elders in the space and treat them like kings and queens and, ask them every question we can ask them about what they know. and, it's very exciting now when I go back to work, I have a space that I know I can bring this little baby in with me, and it's not going to be a problem to have my baby at work.
There will be plenty of community [00:31:00] hands to help hold on to him, um, doting grandparents related to me or not.
ZAK (2): it sounds like you've built a little village for yourself.
KATHRYN: trying, trying to, yeah.
ZAK (2): That's the dream.
KATHRYN: I mean, I want, I'm the business owner and I wanted to have a space where someone in my business could have a baby and not have it. Ruin their work life or their personal life.
ZAK (2): And so, um, I'm the first experiment in it, the last time we talked, you were also actively mentoring a group of other people starting similar to Swanson's fabric style shops. You want to give us an update on how that's going?
KATHRYN: so I am not running that group anymore because I just needed to cut back on some things that I was doing. And also this last year, I have felt like such a student of my business that I didn't feel confident enough to be the teacher. Um, so we have a couple of people who were already just like off to the [00:32:00] races and doing a great job.
Oh my God, Lucky Deluxe Fabrics in Orange, California. and Gemma Fabrics is still getting up and going. There's Making Space Thrift in, Salt Lake City, Utah. But they have been, they've been doing great and they were, they didn't need me so much anymore and I wasn't ready to take on a new group.
Because with this move, of locations, with now suddenly having my job be like building a team instead of just building the concept of the business itself, um, and then I got pregnant and I was like, oh boy, next step is, uh, getting everything Squared away and communicated so that I can even just disappear, um, which meant that I was having to really work on honestly, my communication abilities.
It turns out I'm much better at telling school children what to do than I am at telling adults what to do. It's a different job.
ZAK (2): Sure [00:33:00] is.
KATHRYN: It's a totally different job. Um, and so I, uh, I'm very pleased with, uh, all of the businesses Swanson's.
we have a whole bunch of folks out there who are Swansons inspired, but I'm not directly leading the The pack anymore. Everyone's figuring it out on their own, which I love because I've always said like I would never franchise or anything. I've, I've never told anyone I would exactly tell them what to do, how to build a shop like mine.
I was always just telling people what I was doing with my own shop and hoping that that could be an inspiration to them because I believe in an emergent and responsive process. I don't believe someone is going to have a successful business if they build it just like mine because Mine is built for me in my community with my people and your shop should be built for you.
So for you as a business owner, maybe you really love doing parts of the business that I have no. Taste for that. I actually hire out to other people or you know, I just think everyone [00:34:00] should Tailor make their own. I'm into custom. I'm into tailored, you know, I'm in to make your own So it fits you not into some kind of like dogmatic top down thing and that's what I'm working on now actually is how to get back to that and communicate to people and What does it mean when I say that I'm, that I'm following a responsive and emergent process with my business?
Um, and so how could you apply some of those general principles to your own, um, business or your own life? And that's been, that's been actually while I'm here sitting and nursing, I've been doing a lot of thought work. Um, and ZAK (2): you've got the time.
KATHRYN: got the time. And so that's my, that's my current project is really trying to communicate.
Okay, what, how is it that I make my decisions and that we, um, can sort of respond to new situations like a new baby or a new space or, um, you know, trying to have a whole new [00:35:00] program with like our education program. Um, the best I could come up with is that the, so far, is that, and by an emergent process what I mean is it's almost like drawing a picture, where you start with your sketch of like you put in your horizon line you put in your sort of scaffolding your framework of what you're going to be drawing.
Um, and so those are the general concepts of the business right like we take in donations from people's stashes and we resell the fabric affordably to. The people who want it. So that's the base of the business that always is there. That always is what's making the business successful. And then over time, as we're responding to different problems, challenges, situations, whatever's happening in our world, we are then refining parts of that drawing, making things come into clearer focus.
Um, so, you know, the education program over here, okay, well, [00:36:00] we, we've always been under the scaffolding of we want to share information and teach people how to use the materials that we have and allow them to teach and to teach us and to create community around, um, the fellowship of people wanting to be together and to do handwork together, which I believe people have always done handwork together, you know, um, that that's a pillar of handwork is to be in community.
So that's there. Well, and then Now we're refining it, right? So then I got my director of education and we're really putting up good advertisements about when the classes are and how you can register for them and how you can engage with them, what the classes are, figuring out our curriculum figure, you know, all those things are getting more and more refined.
Well, we're still just always under the umbrella of, we know that as part of this business, we are sharing information and. creating opportunities for education. Um, [00:37:00] and so then the picture can just come into more and more and more into focus. Um, but the basics are always there. Does that make sense? That's the, so that's the responsive part.
And the emergent part is what's, come, what's coming into focus.
ZAK (2): Yeah. It's almost like the responsive part is looking at what's happening right now. And the emergent part is how you pivot to scale up or scale down or scale to appropriate size what you're noticing happening here in the present.
KATHRYN: And it all requires a lot of flexibility, of being able to ask, what are the, Big questions that we need to answer right now. how can we answer two -questions at once? I always like that. How can we solve two problems at once? how can we have a solution that doesn't create more problems?
Um,
ZAK (2): eliminates work as opposed to create work.
KATHRYN: yes,
exactly. Yeah, make things smoother instead of more cumbersome. It's a lot of sort of like, just [00:38:00] saying like, why? Why are we doing this? Does it ZAK (2): I just heard this great country song, Catherine, just yesterday. I wish I could remember the artist. And I just, this one line, it's a song that he's singing to his young child. And this one line really stuck to me. Cause it was like, you only need to know one word. And that word is why KATHRYN: Mm.
ZAK (2): I just think that's so beautiful.
Just, just constantly examine, constantly explore. Don't take anything for granted.
KATHRYN: hmm. I grew up in a family of lawyers, and so it's like a natural tendency of mine to hear their voices challenging every single decision that I make, and I have to answer, why? Why? Why? And so I feel like I have this, like, urge to never do anything that Uh, I want, I want to always be unimpeachable.
I want, I want, I want to be able to explain why at all times, I'm going to have things really make sense. Um, which has been interesting cause that has been a direct part of my like [00:39:00] rejecting systems that don't make sense. So when I started the business and I said, all fabric is going to be 4 a yard, even the silk and the wool and everything that did not make sense.
to a lot of people. And, um, I thought that it didn't make sense that they would be differentiated, and so I had to explain why. and a lot of that was like, we are in such abundance here. Look how much is coming in the door. I mean, we are drowning, Zach. We are drowning in these donations, and I'm in a tiny little rural town.
Like, people like us, we hold on to these beautiful things. Um,
ZAK (2): You're like, you're like Scrooge McDuck swimming in all his gold coins, you know, just taking that dive.
KATHRYN: absolutely am my partner, Dave is like, I'm still just amazed. Like you told me, everyone brings you this stuff and they just give it to you. And now I'm here and I'm fully part of the business and I'm still amazed by it. You know, I said, but we provide a service. We provide a emotional safe space for these things that would be otherwise burdening people, [00:40:00] much like you, Zach are providing me for that family heirloom quilt, right?
Like having. That good place to pass it on to is really a, a gift that we are giving to people and, we are so thankful for the gifts that they give us by bringing us their treasured heirlooms, And then why do I have the prices so low is that my job then is I'm a guardian of the fabric and of the material.
So it's my job to find the right person, the right crafter to be the next home for that. And if I have my prices high enough that it excludes students and young people and broke people, you know, I'm just limiting the pool of who can have access to it. And so I can't guarantee that the right person is going to find it.
Also, something happens where everything's the same price. Um, as a [00:41:00] shopper, some mental tricks that are always being played on us with pricing and sales and blah, blah, blah, like that, those are no longer present. And so the shopper themselves is now just shopping authentically for the thing that their heart.
Calls to and so it helps my process of guaranteeing that the fabric gets in the hands of that person Appropriately it also means that when they have bought it and put it in their stash and then realize oh I you know, I I did in that moment have The heart song for it, but, uh, I've decided now I'm probably never going to get to that project.
It's easier for them to let go of, because they didn't invest a huge amount of money in it. It, they could bring it back and re donate it. And so things that aren't being used that should be can get re circulated. all of it points to the, the why is. It's my job to get this fabric into the hands of the right craft, or who's gonna honor it appropriately.
[00:42:00] and the why is not that I need to make a bunch of money off of this because in our minds, we all collectively think of silk as somehow better or something, you know, like their fabrics all around us and every fabric has a job to do. Even the sticky stick polyesters are actually good for something.
You know, that a silk isn't So.
ZAK (2): my favorite unconventional fabric of the last couple of weeks is, you know, those reusable and I'm using air quotes here, reusable shopping bags that are like some kind of like a microfiber, like heat press microfiber weirdness.
They
KATHRYN: woven stuff. It's kind of like a ground cloth for your garden or
ZAK (2): yeah, exactly, exactly. But it's so fun to hand sew with because it's easy to hand sew with, but when you look close, there's has really interesting texture because it has all these little dimples from where it's like heat set or something.
So there's, yeah, it's a piece of [00:43:00] trash. Again, air quotes, trashy fabric, but there's something if you're curious enough that you can do with it and make it beautiful KATHRYN: Yeah. I mean, on our website, when we put up a piece of fabric, sometimes we'll write in the description, like this should never come in contact with human skin. You know, like this is meant for some kind of rugged job outside, you know, on your boat or something in your shed or like, or yeah, because you're trying to kill some weeds in your garden or, you know, like whatever.
But there is someone out there who has a project that needs that, you know, and so we just try to be honest about what things are. We also say things like this synthetic is trying to be linen and it's doing a great job. We're really proud of it. You know, like, like you can. Yeah, Yeah, don't worry about this one.
Like, it just means it's more washable, you know.
ZAK (2): Yeah
KATHRYN: Um, but yeah, when people come to me looking for a specific fabric, like they'll take a [00:44:00] photo and say, do you have this fabric? I, I say, I'm so sorry. I cannot get the perfect fabric for every crafter. My job is to find the perfect crafter for every fabric that's given to me.
Um, and really, they come in and go out so fast. We don't have a catalog of like, all the Hoffman quilting prints we've ever received or something, you know. It just, it just goes in the Thursday drop and then it's the excitement of thrift store shopping. It's like, what treasures will you find today?
ZAK (2): you just never know
that's why You keep checking in
KATHRYN: Oh my God, I am sitting at home now with my team running all of the donations and the sorting and the photographing and choosing what goes in the drop. And then I get the members email on Wednesday nights and I see what's in there and it's driving me crazy that I didn't get to see it all first. I've had to stop myself so many times from going in on the back end on my, on my app on my phone and putting things as sold out so that no one buys them because I'm like, wait, I would have taken that [00:45:00] home.
ZAK (2): Think I might need to be a member. How do I become a member?
KATHRYN: Oh, This sounds like fun.
it is fun. You just go to our website and it'sthere's a membership option there. We have two levels of membership. The one is 25 a month. The other is 50 a month. and it gets you the first look like which really. It really does mean a lot. Like we are putting up, I'm telling you, linen and silk and wool and like really amazing stuff every week that if you're in the market for those fabrics, I think it's a pretty good, pretty good deal.
But we also are developing our education program, which is going to include more and more, online tutorials and digital classes and videos and things. So there'll be a whole catalog of, things like that for the people at distance. and then the 50 a month one is for people we say who like are really interested in education in our space, and it gets you 50 percent off of all of the classes that we offer and free fellowship nights and things.
you also get a free gift every month. So. There's that.
[00:46:00] Yeah. A little surprise from the stash. Yeah. and what we love about our members so much is that they just really are our cheerleaders who are also like believing in this mission and helping to sustain us and keep us going and helping keep those prices, um, so that we can get these fabrics and supplies to everyone who should have them.
ZAK (2): Totally because it's about it is supporting small and local business, which is so important It is also about creating the kind of world that we want to live in in the future the kind of world We want Grover to live in in the future, right? Like it's it means a lot on multiple levels Yeah, you heard your name didn't you baby?
Can um, can we just keep dreaming a little bit?
KATHRYN: Yeah.
ZAK (2): I got a couple ideas I want to run past you, just hypotheticals, you know. What do you think about, I don't know, a cross country bus tour, you and me?
KATHRYN: If anyone has been listening to me, they know I've been talking about this. I've been talking, I mean, I had been saying Swanson's Summer Tour 2024, [00:47:00] which, obviously, too soon. But I have been talking about a school bus. And a trip, and I want to do it so bad, Zach, that would be amazing.
ZAK (2): Do you have the bus?
KATHRYN: I see them on Facebook Marketplace all the time.
I had one the other day that I was like, this is the perfect bus, if only I had the money right now.
ZAK (2): What's the going rate for a used bus?
KATHRYN: It's all over, but we can do it. We can do it. Because here's the thing. There are a lot of people who started to convert buses in the pandemic, who only got about halfway through, which is the bus for us.
Because we don't need a bus that's fully converted into a house. What we need is something that has a couple of seats and then a bunch of like, I'm telling you, there was this one the other day in New York. Oh my God. It was 7, 500. I should have sent you the link. It was already painted blue.
Swanson's blue. It was like the color of my old shop and it was just the two seats up front. And then the back was like wooden shelving. Like for bins and shit. I mean, it was crazy. It was amazing. And it said it had 147, 000 [00:48:00] miles on it and ran great. What we need is we need someone with a CDL.
ZAK (2): Yes. Well, you or me, we could get that, couldn't we? You just gotta take a class or KATHRYN: yeah, totally, we can get it. And also, I have two elders with CDLs.
ZAK (2): Come on
now,
KATHRYN: but anyway, so that we can do that. But um, okay, let me tell you I Like two years ago went to DC for a big pickup so I knew I was gonna get all these bins and just for funsies I had a tag sale at my aunt's house while I was there before I got on the road.
I thought, let's let DC see some of this. Had a tag sale. We made a bunch of money that day. Did great, better than I expected. And I left with more fabric than I had started the day.
ZAK (2): how does that work?
KATHRYN: I
had not, asked anyone to bring me donations, but people heard that it was me and they arrived at the tag sale with their donations.
They were desperate to give their stuff to me. [00:49:00] And I just thought, there's a there there.
ZAK (2): The people are demanding it. Yes, there is definitely a there there. So in our cross country bus tour, we're just going to like hit up a bunch of cities. We'll let people know, we'll like publish the schedules. They can get their fabrics together. They'll bring them to the bus. But we'll also, we'll have our own little tag sales as you call them in the yard sales, as we call them in the South.
And we'll also, we're just going to keep that fabric moving.
KATHRYN: Oh, absolutely. Okay, here's my vision, right?
So we pull up in our fun bus to a town where we have arranged To have some kind of like church basement or a school gymnasium or something and we set up and have a huge stash sale. So actually the local community people can come and set up their own tables and sell their own stuff.
ZAK (2): Ooh, they can join us. Yes.
KATHRYN: bring a little economy to where we're at and people can sell their own things. While we're there, you and I have a media booth. [00:50:00] during the day where we're inviting people in to show us their pieces and talk about their stashes like antiques roadshow, right? And we get all of these histories.
And in the end, we just say, we'll take whatever's leftover. We take whatever's leftover. And over the next couple of days, we edit all the footage of how amazing that sale was and this space was and what these stories are. And by the time the episode goes live, we have also have all the stuff that we collected available for sale on the website.
It all goes live at the same time and then we drop ship from the gymnasium and move on to the next town.
ZAK (2): bada boom, it's done. Is that easy, folks? I think that sounds amazing. And then, you know, we could get a documentarian to come along with us. You know, we have our CDL driver and our documentarian and our photographer, because we'll want some good photos for the objects that come. With the most compelling stories, KATHRYN: I would like to bring some teenagers for the TikToks.
ZAK (2): yes, please. [00:51:00] Okay. We're really, we're going to need a couple buses. I think I'm down. Let's keep thinking about this idea. I got another one. I want to run past You KATHRYN: Okay, but wait, I just want to
ZAK (2): Oh yeah.
KATHRYN: this is gonna happen after spring of 2025
ZAK (2): We're still going to be here. We're We're going to still be here and let this be something for you to look forward to instead of something to worry about.
I'm here for it.
KATHRYN: Okay.
ZAK (2): the collapse will be behind us at that point.
KATHRYN: That's right.
ZAK (2): We'll be living in a new world.
KATHRYN: Yeah.
ZAK (2): Idea number two. You may have noticed on Instagram that a little thing called Quilt Con just happened.
KATHRYN: Yeah, boy. Did not seem little.
ZAK (2): And the thing that continues to surprise me, or I should say, the thing that I continue to hear from a lot of people is why doesn't Quilt Con have a repurposed textiles category?
That they could enter their work in, which makes me think, why are we waiting for the institution to catch up when we can just make a [00:52:00] whole alt quilt con you and me and everybody, you know what I mean?
KATHRYN: Uh huh.
ZAK (2): Like, I just want like a national convention, but not in a convention center. Cause that seems like that's, I don't know, but like only objects made from repurposed materials, no winners. Unless they're just like really like zany and they'll just showcase like the potential for the abundance of materials That we found ourselves surrounded by and human ingenuity and pulling all those together.
KATHRYN: I am here for it. I, okay. I didn't have QuiltCon on my radar until this year. And for some reason this year, now all my people on social media, I guess I'm pulling a lot more quilters now. Um, what an amazing event, but my prevailing thought was, why aren't Zach and I there?
ZAK (2): Yeah, right, right,
KATHRYN: And then I thought, but then, yeah, I didn't think about like, let's make our own, but of ZAK (2): Let's
KATHRYN: of course, absolutely. Absolutely. I [00:53:00] think that this community is so vibrant, these apex composters. As I like to say, I mean, the people who are inspired by the material around us, by what we see in front of us, Oh, what could I do with that?
I mean, that is a way of creating and of making that is so deep and, and, and exciting and fun and necessary and important, especially right now. I am here for it. Where do you want to do it?
ZAK (2): Well, this is what I'm thinking I mean it goes back full circle to the beginning of our conversation, which is like if you're inventing something new You can forget all the rules and just make it work for you. So QuiltCon is always housed in a big convention center. Very practical, totally understand why you would want to do that.
However, I think we could try something different. And I think it would be a little more, more along the lines of a festival than a convention, maybe a little more outdoors as opposed to a convention hall, no vendors. You know what I [00:54:00] mean? Unless you're Swanson's Fabrics. You're, you're in a class of your own. Um, of time to just look at beautiful objects, share, skill share, knowledge, share, impromptu workshops, picnics, cuddle puddles. I'm just, you know, I'm just, I'm spitballing here, but these, this is what it could look like, you know?
KATHRYN: Yeah. I mean, I hear when you say no vendors, I'm like, but I'm the vendor. But maybe the spirit of that is like the point, isn't the money, isn't the shopping. That's not the point. Right. honestly, the vending literally could be everyone just brings what they don't need anymore. And it all goes into a big space.
And then I mean, actually, with your What did you call it when you got the house and the folks together? Your huddle.
ZAK (2): The huddle.
KATHRYN: With your huddle, I heard that you had people bring things to the huddle and then they put them into categories on the table and then that created inspiration for projects and whatever, right?
So that could be the vending. It could just be all the participants are bringing [00:55:00] their thing. Because, trust me, all of the people who went to QuiltCon, Could have filled the room at QuiltCon four times over with the stashes that they have at home, you know, and still had enough Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, totally.
Um Beautiful. What a concept. I'm in 100 percent
sign sealed delivered
ZAK (2): let's marinate on it. We need a good name. We got to figure this out. If anyone listening would rather just do it, you're what, listen, you know, do you ever have these ideas, Catherine, where you're like, I want this to exist in the world. I don't necessarily want to do all the work. So if there's somebody out there who wants to do the work, it is my gift to you.
However. If the only option is Zach and Catherine do it, or it doesn't happen, well then, maybe Zach and Catherine have to make it happen.
KATHRYN: Well, yes, this is how I feel about it. I'm like, if there's the person out there who loves organization, logistics, to do lists, uh, check ins, [00:56:00] please come take on this project and I'll be here, uh, To help any way you want.
ZAK (2): That's right. We'll be the front people.
KATHRYN: I did, you know, I was thinking, what would I tell people about running a small business and one of the things I would say is it's important that one of your special interests be running a small business ZAK (2): Mmm.
KATHRYN: not just, uh, like for the fabric business that your special interest is fabric.
It is helpful to be stimulated by the concept of running a business because some days that's all you're doing, you know, ZAK (2): right. It's like, well, it's like when I was in the classroom teaching Spanish. It wasn't enough just to love Spanish, I also have to be interested in pedagogy. Right? So, it's not enough just to love fabric. You gotta also be intrinsically interested in the mechanisms of moving that fabric.
KATHRYN: So event planners, any, any special interest event planners out there come plan this event, ZAK (2): Hit us up! Alright.
KATHRYN: but we'll do it otherwise. I think we should do it otherwise.
ZAK (2): yeah,
yeah,
KATHRYN: Oh my God. we [00:57:00] know we know how to find an event planner.
ZAK (2): We can make that
KATHRYN: You are an event planner. You did your huddle. You
ZAK (2): The huddle was amazing. We're already planning huddle number two. And huddle number three.
KATHRYN: So maybe our, maybe, okay. Can, can like, can we have huddle number four near Swanson's?
ZAK (2): Yeah, sure. Why not?
KATHRYN: So then maybe that can be our little dipping our toes into what our, you know what I mean?
ZAK (2): Okay. The potential there is really electrifying to me right now. I love that idea. I love, okay. We'll keep talking.
KATHRYN: Cause I was listening to your, your podcast about the huddle and I was like, Oh yeah, I want, yeah. what if people were coming into the stash house and using the machines there every day? Yeah.
ZAK (2): Totally. Okay. Yeah, let's, let's brainstorm. All right, Catherine, we can talk and dream all day long. You and I have no problem doing that. However, um, I do, I have one more question for you, just to kind of wrap things up. Who are some people that you're following that you're really inspired by? Who are two or three people that you think we should all be paying more attention [00:58:00] to Excuse me folks. I'm just going to interrupt myself right here and say, this is the SAC of the future. Coming back to interrupt this conversation. To say that you'll get to hear Catherine's response about the three people she thinks everyone should know about.
But first, I just want to remind you that there is so much more about this episode that I want to share with you and you can find it all for free. On the same side extras link in the show notes below there, you can see images of things we've talked about in this episode. , you can get access to journaling reflection, prompts that people are loving. And you can find all the links to the three people she's about to mention.
So we'll swing back to me and Catherine's talk here in just a second, but let me go ahead and just say goodbye to you. Between now. And the next time we chat, I hope you're well, I hope you're sewing something good. And I hope to see you soon. Maybe on the Knuck who knows.
KATHRYN: Okay. So my first person is Sydney Swisher, who is on Instagram [00:59:00] and TikTok and is a oil painter. I don't know if you've seen this person's work. So I sent her a few pieces of fabric because what Sydney does is Sydney stretches her canvas with repeat pattern fabric with like home decor fabrics. uses a clear gesso to create the ground and then paints on top of it.
And so the fabric starts to come through in these like gorgeous sort of haunting ways. She does these, roomscapes of sort of nostalgic looking sort of bedrooms or living rooms of homes that you could envision from like the 70s or the 80s. She also does like portraits of houses and her, uh, painting ability is amazing, but what a way to transform fabric and And to redefine, how we think about fabric, first of all, how we think about canvas to paint on, but then also the home decor fabrics that we have.
And of course, what happens with someone who does a work like this is they are [01:00:00] taking a small piece, you know, just a couple of feet by a couple of feet and making it something So special and important and holding so much weight and like that's what I love about fabric is that from, you know, 10 yards is good for a couch a scrap this big is good for your patch on your pants.
And depending on how much sort of human energy and work and love you put into it, it elevates that bit. Um, and so her work is just not only like technically phenomenal, but it is like a use of fabric that I'm finding really pleasurable to, to see in process.
ZAK (2): and that's Sydney Swisher.
KATHRYN: Sydney Swisher. Yeah, I think she's on Instagram as Sid Swisher.
ZAK (2): We'll get a link in the show notes for
KATHRYN: Yeah, great. And then the other person is Isaiah Moses, who is a young man, a crochet artist in the [01:01:00] Midwest. And he just makes the most fanciful and magical wearable items that are, it's like, it feels a lot like art to wear. He says that what he's doing is healing his inner child. I feel like looking at his work that he's like playing with his inner child.
but he's making hoods that have ears on them and like ponchos that are constellations and things. But his work is all just like so bright and colorful and inspiring. Um, and I have also sent him Some things he was teaching kids how to crochet at a camp and he needed some supplies And so I sent him a bunch of stuff.
One of my favorite things has been to see an artist on Instagram who I Think is doing really great stuff and then send them a DM and just say I love what you're doing. What's your next project? What are you in the market for and then I just go and send them whatever I can find Because in the spirit of it's my job to [01:02:00] find the right crafter for each supply I love to see these people who are just like really putting themselves out there and uh, send them along some treats when I can.
but, so those are two people who are really like, I'm really happy to see them come along in my feed these days. The, the kids who are doing crochet are so exciting. I love, I love the moment crochet has been having.
ZAK (2): It's having a really good moment lately.
KATHRYN: I know, and I think that, I think that that is really hopeful for our world in a lot of ways.
I just think that like, I don't know. Crochet, to me, it's like, it's one single loop, you know, and one hook. And it can be sculpture, it can be lace, it can be garments. It's just, there's so much that it can be, so I feel like when a person starts crocheting, they're just opening up, like, such a huge amount of possibilities for themselves.
So, I love to encourage that. You know, I love to encourage all needle and hand work, and [01:03:00] then there's this, uh, young woman. She's a little preoccupied with her boyfriend, but Taylor Swift, do you know her? I just really think she is. I just really think she's amazing.
She's all
over my feed. There's Taylor. Um, no, but, uh, those are, those are two big ones that I can think of off the top of my baby brain.
ZAK (2): I think that's great. we'll leave it there on the the hopefulness of crochet. How's that sound?
KATHRYN: Oh, wait, I can give you one more.
ZAK (2): I'm here for it. What you
KATHRYN: Let me give you one more. Okay.
ZAK (2): So Radha, um, her handle is sewing through fog and she is a denim artist. She's based in. San Francisco she worked for Levi's for a long time and she was a part of the corporate machine and even like helped develop their fast fashion denim brand and then had a total change of Heart, about the work that she was doing and decided she didn't want to be a part of that problem anymore and she wanted to be a part of the [01:04:00] solution and she left the corporate world and she's like currently trying to figure out how to like financially even make that make sense for herself, but in the meanwhile, She has been putting out a ton of content to inspire people about what you can do with denim and upcycling denim.
KATHRYN: She is teaching. Um, projects and and putting out patterns. She was just at QuiltCon with a gorgeous denim quilt. And she, this is why I really love Radha, she put together, and it's on her website, a directory of every creative reuse store that she could get people to tell her about in the whole world. And so you can look at her map and find the pin closest to you and find the Swanson's Fabrics or the, um, you know, whatever version of textile upcycling, reuse, creative reuse store, uh, there is as nearby.
So, that resource was like, incredible for her to put into the world. And it's just there on her website for free. [01:05:00] There's lots of ways to interact with Radha and what she's doing and support her work. But that is just there for the public. Thank goodness. Because we needed that. Oh, ZAK (2): It sounds like that would be very helpful for me planning my next steps of where I'm going to live next. You know, like I, I have two criteria. Three. One is I want a place where there's a Goodwill outlet or some kind of creative reuse store close at hand. Two. I want a pool so I can swim laps. Three, if there's like a Quaker group around, that would be nice.
I enjoyed going to Quaker church while I was there, going to those meetings. Anyway, uh, Radha is an amazing person. I know her because she's on the Nook, and she's very active on the Nook. So, full circle, love that. Thank you for bringing Radha into this conversation.
KATHRYN: yeah. And let's use her map to plan our tour.
ZAK (2): Yeah, brilliant, of course.
KATHRYN: Right. Because when we have a bus full of stuff and we're going to our next location, we'll need [01:06:00] to stop somewhere and donate.
ZAK (2): That's right.
KATHRYN: So we'll have to have to plan according to where we can upload
some stuff to.
ZAK (2): Thank you, Radha.
KATHRYN: Thank you, Radha, so much. Yeah. And what an inspiration to see her, you know, change careers from.
from the industry to, to what she's doing now. I think that, you know, that is an example of someone who's saying, I don't have to follow these rules anymore. I'm actually going to do what I want and make it make sense.
ZAK (2): There you go.
KATHRYN: Yeah.
ZAK (2): The world needs more of that.
KATHRYN: Oh my gosh, don't we make it make sense everyone for the
ZAK (2): That's for the Grovers. Catherine Grover, thank you so much for spending a little catch up time, dream time with me.
KATHRYN: Thank you, Zach. I feel like I was like disjointed and nursing and because I was ZAK (2): No, it was It was so great.
KATHRYN: But I you are such a pleasure to talk to and so [01:07:00] inspiring and I love that you put your like doomsday Scheduled so soon next spring because once we, because we can just get past that real fast and then say, we thought collapse was certain, but we, but look at that. It wasn't. It
ZAK (2): Here we are. We're in May of 2025 and things are still going.
KATHRYN: Yeah.
ZAK (2): Good on us.
KATHRYN: Good on us.
Yeah. We're going on tour.